hatam_soferet (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
hatam_soferet) wrote2004-01-15 08:35 pm
hatam_soferet) wrote2004-01-15 08:35 pm
work
We switched places in Kiddushin, because Zvi seemed to think that the rest of the second perek contained too many contemporary issues, and that the class would get sidetracked so much that we wouldn't learn any gemara. I think this is basically true - it starts talking about women and mitzvot - but it's a shame in a way, cos the first part of the perek is all about shlichut, which is all very well but a bit dull, and now we're doing the third perek from the beginning, and it's all shlichut again. It's not exactly boring, but a change in subject-matter would be nice.
So we're on http://www.e-daf.com/Kidushin/59a.gif and http://www.e-daf.com/Kidushin/59b.gif - http://www.dafyomi.co.il/kidushin/points/kd-ps-59.htm - the first part talks about the situation where I send you to marry a girl for me, and you decide that you like her and marry her for yourself. The discussion is basically whether the marriage was valid in the first place, since you were on an errand for me at the time - and it was, so then they discuss just how much of a bastard you were for doing it.
Then it gets into discussing cancellations. If I do an act, it's clear enough from the cases they are thinking of that I can't cancel it with a word, I have to do another act. The question is if I make a promise (in the context of marriage), can I cancel it with just words, or do I have to do some kind of formal act to cancel it?
Well, they discuss it for a bit. R' Yochanan says you can cancel a promise to get married with just words, and Resh Lakish says you can't. In a different context, R Nachman says that when you send a messenger with a get, you can cancel the mission just by saying so, and the get stays live, as it were, it can be re-used; and R Sheshet says no. Then the gemara asks a stupid question, it says doesn't R Yochanan contradict R Nachman? The answer is clearly no because they're talking about different things - R Nachman says that the get is not cancelled but the mission is, and R Yochanan says that the promise is cancelled, the promise being analagous to the mission. So the problem is why did the gemara ask such an obvious question. The rishonim have fun with it.
So we're on http://www.e-daf.com/Kidushin/59a.gif and http://www.e-daf.com/Kidushin/59b.gif - http://www.dafyomi.co.il/kidushin/points/kd-ps-59.htm - the first part talks about the situation where I send you to marry a girl for me, and you decide that you like her and marry her for yourself. The discussion is basically whether the marriage was valid in the first place, since you were on an errand for me at the time - and it was, so then they discuss just how much of a bastard you were for doing it.
Then it gets into discussing cancellations. If I do an act, it's clear enough from the cases they are thinking of that I can't cancel it with a word, I have to do another act. The question is if I make a promise (in the context of marriage), can I cancel it with just words, or do I have to do some kind of formal act to cancel it?
Well, they discuss it for a bit. R' Yochanan says you can cancel a promise to get married with just words, and Resh Lakish says you can't. In a different context, R Nachman says that when you send a messenger with a get, you can cancel the mission just by saying so, and the get stays live, as it were, it can be re-used; and R Sheshet says no. Then the gemara asks a stupid question, it says doesn't R Yochanan contradict R Nachman? The answer is clearly no because they're talking about different things - R Nachman says that the get is not cancelled but the mission is, and R Yochanan says that the promise is cancelled, the promise being analagous to the mission. So the problem is why did the gemara ask such an obvious question. The rishonim have fun with it.